(asked by S.B. from… somewhere… apparently people don’t like to mention where they’re from when they ask questions)
I’ve begun learning French and apparently he’s working on his English…
We’re both in our mid-twenties.
My question: He told me he’d like to spend a lot of time with me when I go back and take me places to eat, places to see, etc…
As you can imagine, I’m thrilled but… do you have any dating tips for me? My cousin can only help me so much… I need some info from a French guy’s perspective.
I don’t know anything about French men… Particularly shy, family/friend-oriented French men… Any suggestions are welcome!
Ah! Dating a Frenchman! The dream of every foreign woman, and a few gay men too…
But how make this dream come true?
Do you simply go to the country, you meet the man, and there you go?
It’s not that easy.
See, one big mistake a bunch of people make when dealing with love and relationships is to assume that “oh well, this is a universal feeling, this is what makes us humans, so it’s all the same everywhere”
Wrong.
Everything in our lives is influenced by our cultures. Everything! And especially dating…
And ignoring the dating rules of the country you’re in will cause trouble and failures in your dating attempts (yes, I’m sadly talking from experience here). I say “the country you’re in” and not “the nationality of the person you’re dating” because I believe that at least in the beginning, you cannot assume that a local will know the rules of dating in your country; on the other hand, a local, being a local, usually cannot know the rules of your country, sometimes isn’t even aware that rules are different.
Here I’m assuming that one of the two persons is a local. Things will be different if they’re both foreigners in a third country.
That you know the rules of the country you’re in is very important, just like in any other case, but in dating even more, because as I said early, too many people assume that dating is “natural” and not “cultural”.
That being said, you’re all dying to know the rules of dating in France… Well, here they are!
The rule number one in dating in France is that there are no rules!
Well, that’s not exactly true, but let’s say that there are much fewer rules than in many other countries, especially the US (as usual, in what follows I will mostly compare with American culture).
Actually, the very concept of dating is not as defined in France.
Remember that even if “date” is a French world (meaning: day, month and year), there’s no word in French for “date” meaning “romantic get together”.
Let’s get into details.
First, the “asking out” part:
Asking out in France is not that different I guess.
It’s mostly about saying “Would you like to [insert something about dining, going to a movie or similar activities here]?”
You usually ask this to the girl after you know her a little, having met her at work, school, through common friends, etc.
I say ask the girl, because it’s really rare that the woman asks the man out in France. It can happen, but it’s extremely rare.
Please note that in France, you rarely meet your future date in a bar or a club… Well, it can happen, but much less than in the US.
A big difference between both countries is the bar scene.
In France, it’s really rare that you talk to strangers in a bar, unless it’s a very lively bar, it’s late at night and everybody is very drunk and happy. But early in the night, when people are still quite sober, it’s really rare.
As an (almost) rule of thumb, if a guy talks to you (a girl) in a bar, chances that he’s sketchy are extremely high.
Also note that blind dates are almost inexistent in France.
But also note that all of those things have been changing a lot in recent years because of internet dating that has become extremely popular in France, and especially in Paris.
One other thing one needs to know when asking a French woman out. In France, “no” doesn’t mean “no”. It means “maybe”, “let’s see”, “ask again”, etc. So if a French woman says no when you ask her out (or anything else), it doesn’t mean that she doesn’t want to go out with you, it means she’s playing hard to get, and you’ll have to ask several times (of course, there’s a fine line between “several” and “annoyingly too many”, and this line will depend from one individual to another…)
How is this relevant for an American woman dating a French man?
Simple, if you, the American woman, are saying “no” meaning “no” and you have the French man still insisting, don’t get mad at him. He’s been trained like this by French woman, and he’s just thinking you’re playing hard to get and/or you need convincing.
Same thing goes with “I don’t know” and “maybe”.
I’ve noticed that in an American woman’s mouth “I don’t know” often means “no” and “maybe” often means “yes”.
Usually, in a French woman’s mouth (and consequently in a French man’s ear) “I don’t know” means “I don’t know, I’m not sure, convince me.” And “maybe” means “maybe, I’m not sure, convince me.”
OK, the asking has been done, the date is about to happen.
Remember that dates are not as codified in France, which means that basically anything goes, and what will make it a good or a bad date is whether you had a good time or not, and not whether he or she said or did this or that.
Now, here are a few important points where things are quite different between France and the US:
-Calling: in the US, there are all those strange rules about calling, who’s calling who, when, how much time between two calls, etc, etc. None of these exist in France. And, contrarily to the US, the more the guy calls, the better.
In the US, I’ve had some first dates going great and everything went to the gutter afterwards because the girl felt I was calling too much, almost harassing her.
Thing is that in France, if a guy calls a girl a lot, it means he cares. If he doesn’t, it means he doesn’t care. Simple.
I remember a few weeks ago, when my French female roommate started seeing this French guy, she was all worried and stressed and pissed because he hadn’t called/emailed/messaged in about 8 hours! For her there was one possible explanation: he didn’t care about her.
Yep, this is how French women are, and as a consequence, this is how French men (that have only dated French women) will behave.
-Kissing: One thing that always disturbed me in the US is how it’s sometimes easy to kiss or to get kissed (I’m talking mouth kissing, or even French kissing here). Sometimes, people, especially when they’re drunk, will kiss for whatever reason. And more important, people that are dating will kiss at the first date and regularly after that, even if they don’t think/feel that they are in a relationship, even if they see other people.
None of this is OK in France.
Well, kissing while wasted is somewhat OK, but might become very embarrassing the following day, depending on who were the people that kissed.
But in a dating situation, kissing on the lips, and especially French kissing, means one and only thing: you wanna be in a relationship with the person.
I’m saying it again: if you kiss somebody on the lips in France, it means that you consider this person as your boyfriend or girlfriend and that you want to be exclusive and in a relationship with them (long or short term doesn’t matter here, though)
Kissing and dating other people is not OK anymore.
-Sex: On the other hand, remember (as mentioned in a previous question) that French society and French people are not as fucked up as Americans are when it comes to sex. Even if things are far from perfect, they have a much healthier and more casual approach to sex. And in France no such thing as wondering after how many dates it’s OK to have sex, as “no sex on the first date, that means you’re easy”, etc.
In France, the rule with sex is simple: it can happen anytime after the first kiss… even minutes after it. It’s that first kiss that will trigger the “ok for sex” option in your relationship. Hence the importance of the timing of that kiss regarding to where you want to go and what you want to do with that person.
-Offending: One thing that’s not exactly related to dating, but it can be… That fear that American people have to offend other people is totally misunderstood in France. In France, it’s OK to offend people, or rather, it’s the offended responsibility to be offended or not, not the offender’s one.
So, don’t be afraid to be honest for fear of offending the person. OK, it doesn’t work for everything (even in France, telling your girlfriend she looks fat in that dress is a big no no), but overall, French people are much more open and upfront than Americans. Keep that in mind when you’re in a relationship with a French person, whether it is about what they say or about what you say (or rather what you don’t dare to say).
-Overall Advantages and Disadvantages of the (absence of) rules in French dating:
Well, the main advantage is that things are more “natural”, people follow more what they feel and less what should or shouldn’t be done.
The main disadvantages are that things can be too blurry at times, especially in the pre-dating phase. I can’t tell you how many French girls I never asked out even though I liked them because I was convinced they didn’t care about me and I learned afterwards that the only thing they were waiting was that I ask them out. And on the other hand, how many French girls turned me down when I asked them out when I was convinced they had a crush on me and I didn’t. These kinds of misunderstandings never happened to me in the US.
But I wonder if this is really related to the difference in dating rules in both countries, or in the difference in behavior in girls from both countries?
Edit: Apparently a lot of people arrive on this blog here, and fail to read the instructions before sending me a question.
So, please if you have a question in the form of “I’ve met this French guy, I thought he liked me, but now I’m not sure anymore” or something like that, and you send it as “anonymous”, don’t expect me to answer that. At least, give me a way to respond privately (an e-mail address would be good), but be aware that my answer will most likely be “I don’t know the guy, and I can’t read his mind, so I don’t know what’s going on.”
So, before sending me a question about dating, make sure that:
-the answer is not already here or elsewhere on the blog.
-there is an answer that I can know, that is something that has to do with behaviors in general, not about a specific guy.
Thanks for your understanding.
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OMG! I didn’t read it all, but Frenchman, PLEASE… write a book- I’ll buy it and have all my friends buy it, too!! You ROCK!!!!!! PS… Not ALL Americans are afraid to offend… You forgot the NYers… They are on top of it all…. Take care, Leese : )
P.S. I don’t have any questions at the moment… but when I think of some, I’ll ask… I’m from Antony (live in- From Cali.), as you know… and PROUD of it!!
I never dated a Frenchman…was in love with one though. I guess I showed too much interest that he freaked out I would be too consuming:)
So having sex on a first date means what?
So women wait to be contacted (phone, mail…) more …I mean they should have less initiative?
ciao
dear reader
haha…the calling thing in the US is out of hand. Just freakin’ call already! If you’re a normal person you will know what is calling too much. Throw in text messaging and things really get confusing…
And women are expected to initiate a lot here. Guys are getting lazy in the US…
Formal “dating” has become almost passe too. It seems younger people hang out and “hook up”.
Oh yeah…I think American women usually mean what they say.
No = NO!
Yes = Yes!!!
Maybe = maybe, convince me!
OMG!!! Frenchman, I think maybe Florida (where you were living) may be a lot like Cali in the sense of offending people… But, and I beg to set something straight here about Americans… try NY because the local people (American NYers) don’t hold ANYTHING back… At least, that’s my experience… Who knows, maybe it’s changed by now… But, in my experience NYers have ALWAYS been outright about what they think about you, your mother, and the mailman.. So, nothing is above talking about… Just a different culture out that way… Leese : )
Ok so you covered how to date a french man, but I have a certain situation…
I am an american student(female) renting an apartment for a few months from a family in Paris. They live a few floors down from me, and their son is gorgeous. I keep trying to go down to their apartment when I know the mother is not home so I can ask him questions(Where can I buy a phone, whats the best metro, etc). Today he and his sister came up to give me a receipt from the mother. It’s like whenever I see him, the younger sister is at his hip. He doesn’t really talk to my roommate, instead he starts conversations with me. Today he asked what my plans were, and I told him I was just going to a garden to read, followed by a “Why, do you have any suggestions?” and he got flustered and just told me that was a good idea. I think he could be interested, but how can I know? I can’t keep going down to his apartment because I’m out of stupid tourist questions to ask him. Do you have any suggestions? Is it even plausible that he’d be interested in the lowly renter girl?
I’d really appreciate some insight!!
Thanks,
a Florida girl in Paris
I’m currently ( I guess you can say Dating)a Frenchmen. We meet on-line, he lives in Paris and I’m in LA. Everything seemed to move very fast. I had two conversations with him the next thing I know he’s emailing me saying I don’t think about him because I don’t call him enough. Then he wants me to talk to his mother. It’s been a week for us. Is this normal of French men. Do they all move so fast?
I feel like this is a “Dear Frenchman” column!! hehehe!! Maybe you SHOULD write a book!
Have a good week…
um i’m in love with you! you answer everything i’ve wanted to know, and i’ve wanted to know a lot. i have been obsessed with all things french and french culture and people and everything from a really young age. my parents just never understood it lol. i have a cousin and we are totally alike only she is ten years older than me. i always looked up to her and her parents were in the military. she was partly raised in germany and spent a significant amount of time in france. she often told me about it, after she moved to the states. maybe this is where my intense francophilia stems from?! lol
anway, i’m simply convinced i was born in the wrong country. my whole adolescent life i have worn lingerie on a daily basis, loved classic pefume and been completely OBSESSED with french decorating haha . all this even through my five years as a punk rocker practically living in ’77. deep down inside i still just wanted to run away to france lol.
so glad to have stumbled upon your blog!
well, this was an informative topic. Having recently moved to France, I’ve been curious about the differences in ‘dating’ cultures … although now I discover that dating is probably not the right approach to be thinking of. hmmmm.
I like your blog and your (somewhat) sarcastic writing style. You just need more posts. I guess that means I should start coming up with some questions. that don’t involve a CDS or the language or dating or ??? lol.
Ah ah j’adore le paragraphe sur le baiser, mais je pense que tu aurais du insister sur l’aspect “long or short term doesn’t matter here, though”; j’ajouterais “even few hours term”. Par contre concernant le sexe, je dirais même concernant ceci “In France, the rule with sex is simple: it can happen anytime after the first kiss… even minutes after it.”, even minutes before the first (French) kiss…
Hello Frenchman,
Quite interesting blog you have here - I dated a frenchman when I was living in france and I’m recently seeing one now where I work and live outside of france and your comments on the cultural aspects of dating struck me somewhat - I’m just surprised I’ve never noticed the similarities before!
I quite appreciate the easy flow of romantic relationships typical of the french but after seeing this guy for 3 months, I can’t help but wonder whether I’m just another casual encounter for him (another infamous french ‘summer romance’ stories) or if he sees any potential for something more serious. The fact that it took him this long to even start introducing me to his friends (which is unusually long in the culture here) and introduces me as his gf but still maintains his ‘single’ status in online groups is confusing me. I like the guy I’m seeing now a fair bit and I’m used to and would like to be in a committed, long-term relationship but I can’t tell if 1) I’m barking up the wrong tree or 2) interpreting things inaccurately and that maybe he needs more time to feel more certain with a girl before committing more
What is the definition of a serious relationship to the french anyhow?
Thanks for this.. though I already learned most of it firsthand, I still found it interesting to read about. It explains a lot as to why the French guy, that I met one week before and kissed once at the end of the night, was so mad when he saw me on the dancefloor with another guy, and right away told me he was upset and jealous. I thought, what’s the problem, I’m single, aren’t I? Apparently not, haha. Well, it’s been about a month now and things are going well but we definitely have cultural misunderstandings on a day to day basis! Oh well - it definitely keeps it interesting!
hey - thanks for this posting. I’ve been hanging out with a Frenchman for a couple of months on a very regular basis and I didn’t realize that the dating rules were so different.
We’ve been working on helping one of his roommates date an American girl and I worked out the following guide for relationship levels in the US.
If you’re “just friends” with a guy in the US, you talk about the people you’re dating with him and vice versa. Is this the same for French guys?
Also, I understand that signing emails “biz” is a common and casual way for men and women to close out letters to friends. Is that true? if so, you should warn American women since men here will never sign an email “kiss” “love” or “xoxo” unless they’re in a relationship or gay.
sorry for the flurry of questions… so, if this guy has told me he “has to insist on remaining friends” because he’s not in a good place to date but we’ve talked about sex and he never talks about other girls he’s dating and (according to his friends) he talks a lot about me…. uh… is that a sign that we’re really just friends or is he kind of on the fence?
I know you’re not a mind reader but I think I’m in a situation that is in the crosshairs of cultural misunderstanding and regular relationship confusion…
haha. Thanks for your input
Hi Frenchman, what a fantastic site! the first bit’s a question and the rest are just some thoughts for other readers (which, it would be interesting to get your observations on but as you say, this is not a dating column so don’t feel obliged to answer).
My question is to ask the usual way that French women respond when French men say things like je t’adore and ma cherie etc. etc. Do they respond with the same kinds of language or play it a bit cool usually? Certainly the English way is to hold back from virtually any terms of endearment - Americans I would imagine are more open than the English.
This next bit is more specific so you may be happy to comment but maybe not. Here goes:
This site has saved me potentially hours of agonising confusion relating to a French guy I’ve just met who is sending loads of messages, made a 15 mile round trip involving picking up and driving something I needed from a friends house to my door. Also telling me how beautiful I am etc. etc. and I only met him on New Year’s eve!
I was highly suspicious and confused before reading this site and now it all makes sense. So from now on i’m just going to enjoy this wonderful man and probably never be interested in an English man again!
I’m fascinated by other cultures and never even considered that there was a cultural difference to dating!
I am American and I kissed a French man this 1 random night and now he calls me his girlfriend to all of his friends! I like him but I feel weird when he calls me his girlfriend when he didn’t even ask me first. In France, does this always happen or something?
Thank you for your insight Frenchman.
I am a latin american woman who has dated both, Americans and French guys. What you mention about dating is totally accurate; in a way I am more used and comfortable with the idea that lips kissing is a signal of true interest on a person and therefore you wouldn’t be goofing around with other people at the same time.
The other things I find as a truly relief while dating French guys is the non-obsessive reading of signs around the time of a first date, such as the time before calling for first time, intervals for calling..I mean….one should be allow to be spontaneous and to enjoy the spontaneity of the person we may be interested on.
I just wanted to share something. I went on a date with a French guy in Athens (Greece). I’m not Greek, by the way, so we are both foreigners in this country. We met in a club and exchanged numbers. Later, the guy called me on the phone and I specified the time and place of the date. Then he showed up 30 minutes later. Actually, I called him on the 10th minute when he was late to ask what was wrong. He said he was lost, because he didn’t know the city very well. This was the main reason I waited for him, he recently came to Athens and it’s a huge city, you can easily get lost. When he came I was a little angry with him, because, come on, I’ve been waiting for so long, I just felt uncomfortable, standing like a statue for half an hour. He didn’t apologise, neither did he thank me for waiting. The weirdest part was when the bill came. I payed everything, because he just sat there and didn’t say anything. I didn’t expect him to pay, because I usually go Dutch with my dates. But it was strange. Anyway, I don’t know if such a behaviour is typical for French guys. The whole date was awkward and refused to meet him again. I’m just confused and wondering if all French guys are like him? Or if I’m overreacting.
Thanks for this! I am an Americana living in London and I went out with a French guy last night. We held hands but we didn’t kiss. I was like, what, maybe he doesn’t really like me, but I know the chemistry was there. He did text me though and plan to go have sushi next week. I guess it’s cultural because I was thinking no first-date kiss means no second date. I know, silly American!
Thank you so much, it all makes sense now!!!!
I love this article. My American friend is dating a french man and everything you mentioned is very true. But one thing we couldn't figure out is the part in the relationship when you say "i love you" in France. Is it as big of a deal as it is here in the US? Or do they just say it whenever nonchalantly like it is just understood? Thanks!!
Merci for this blog!!! I am an Asian who has actually met and dated far too many Frenchmen. They are all different. yes, there are some "cultural" similarities, but they are indeed, INDIVIDUALS. I also agree with your comment that Americans have a far too "screwed up" views about dating and offending people. They should relax and be more spontaneous.
I do love watching Hollywood shows, but I think they contribute to women's confusion the world over. Why should there be rules? I am currently dating a Frenchman (4th one so far) and we are both happy. One word of advice to non-French women dating Frenchmen . . . enjoy food and drinks together. A real turn-off is someone who hardly shares their passion for food and wine simply because they are on a stupid diet! Frenchmen are lovers of the "finer things in life" . . . all 4 of them I have dated were really impressed that I know what I was talking about when it came to cheese, wines, foie gras and rillets. In fact, I do love French food myself and I have impressed 2 French mums with my version of Coq Au Vin . . . with an Asian twist, of course.
At the end of the day, a good date is not one that is overly analysed. Just go with the flow, you ladies . . . do not over -analyse . . . if there is anything you should be researching, its not how a Frenchman will act, but rather what vintage is good from Cote Rotie.
Don't stress too much with dressing up in Manolos . . . please, that is such a NYC cliche! Just be yourself and wear CONFIDENCE. They sniff that pretty well and think that is sexy!!!
wow, if french people r more open to offending people then NYers then that is crazy! don't they worry about hurting their friends feelings at all? i hate to hurt people's feelings but i still try to be honest with them, but in a nice way….
I have been a student in Paris for two years now, and have avoided relationships with French men. I have a friend who is a french male, who I have known for over a year now (most of that time I had a boyfriend back home) We talk often on the phone, online, and meet up for drinks, dinners and large groups of friends. He has always sent flirty texts but I figured that the french are just naturally flirtacious. The other night he spent the night at my apartment after a night on the town. We talked, then he told me he had been wanted to "open mouth" kiss me and asked for my permission. We did. We didn't have sex that night, but since then he has been calling more often. By asking for my permission to kiss me, does that imply that we are dating? In the states.. a kiss is just a kiss..
Is he merely interested in persuing things with me? or does this mean he considers us an item?
thank you!
I think this question has been answered in the very topic you're commenting. Maybe reading it could be a good idea. (as well as reading the rest of what's written anywhere, no need to try to post your comment 5 times, it won't show until I have moderated it)
hey Frenchman,
okay so it was really intresting to learn this. But I have a question. If the boys are the ones who mostly call all the time, do the girls just sit around? I mean,can a girl call alot too, or would it be considered like improper or something? Thanks,Lizzy.
Lizzy, search the blog, this question is more or less answered elsewhere:
http://www.askafrenchman.net/2009/11/why-french-women-do-not-ask-men-out.html
Wow, I like this Blog, Frenchman! Good Work!
In America, people kiss freely. They do it on the first date sometimes. There is, however, a difference in kisses. There is the "I'm horny, let's have sex" kiss and the "I like you let's start something" kiss. There are also others but I'm not gonna go into much detail because these are the ones I will use in my questions.
You state that generally kissing means that you want a relationship with someone and that sex can happen on the first date. You also state that sex usually follows a kiss. Is this kiss the "horny" kiss or the "I like you" kiss? Can sex come before a "like you" kiss? If it does, is it norm for people to "horny" kiss during sex if they haven't "like you" kissed before the sex?
I know this question doesn't make much sense but I'm a bit confused at the moment.
Ish The fFsh, you do seem a bit confused
From my experience (which is not much), a "horny" kiss comes before a "like you" kiss either when you had a one night stand (during which you performed lots of "horny" kisses), that feels so great that you decide to have a relationship (here comes the "like you" kiss) or when you had a sexual relationship that finally turns into a serious relationship.
Maybe what confused you was the all thing about "sex at the first date". I believe that it sometimes happens because some people prefer waiting to know each other (at work, or in a group of friends) before having romantic dates.
As for the question "are French people more open to offending people then NYers ?", well, I never met a NYer, so I can't speak for them. But I'm French and even if it's not true for all the French people, I think it's pretty fair to say that lots of French expect honesty from their friends and family. And yet it is well known than truth can be hard on people. Besides, French people like to discuss passionately, they enjoy confronting their ideas. I remember back then in Mexico, during an exchange programm, I was once discussing quite animatedly with a French friend of mine. Our Mexican roomie was convinced that we were arguing pretty badly. But for us, it was nothing, we cooled off easily. My point is (and I finally get there) that maybe from a foreign point of view, French people may seem harsh on each other when they just are discussing about religion, gay marriage or politics ! As French people tend to take everything personnaly, these discussions can be really heated ! Of course sometimes, it is just what it looks like : jerks are everywhere, and for example it is quite common to see French people insulting each other at the wheel…
Hope I didn't generalise too much, and sorry for the English. Frenchman, this topic gives a good analysis of French way of dating.
I REALLY LIKE YOUR ANSWER.!!!!
I have been living in France for the past year in a permanent move, started a business and am doing my best with the language. I have nothing but praise for France - it feels more like home than England ever did - and the french people I have met and befriended have all been lovely, helpful, open and honest and I appreciate it when they correct my grammar! I get invited to apéros and I think I have gained a lovely local boyfriend (? but you don’t need any more questions on that!) I absolutely love the countryside and I live in rural France - South West and it is beautiful, I can’t really thank each and every french person I meet for making me feel so welcome so I guess I just want people here to see that the cliché of french people being rude and unhelpful is a long way from the truth. I will say though, that the people I meet (who will all stop and chat or at least say hello) do not judge you on your appearance, it is very much about whether you have a beautful nature and are a good person - I love that! But then I love France! Bisous
lmao! this is great! thanks for the info. You should totally write a “french dating” handbook…i’ll be first in line at barnes & noble to buy it!!
I will never write a dating book.
All I have to say about dating has been said in this post.
Haha I LOVE this blog. Very helpful.. ok Frenchman, I need ur help.. I’ve experienced all that u have said, the difference between french and american “dating” can be very boggling to the American culture.. I’ve been seeing this French guy for almost two months now and frm the moment we first meet, I can tell we had somethin. Even kissed on the first night which was rare for me. We’ve been through alot now nd both have told eachother how much we like eachother, however its so hard for me to determine if were “in a relationship” or not.? Or if we ever will be. Idk if he’s suppose to ask or am I just to assume we are? It’s hard to understand because I’m rarely introduced to his friends who he seems to see more than me, and also so hard to talk to him on the phone what not..other than that when were finally together he gives me all the attention. I just want to know if and when/can and should we take this further..? I’d really like to have a title with him considering he wants to take me to France and stuff..what do you think frenchy??
I think that you haven’t read the “Read First!” page of the blog.